Emma Wall: Hello and welcome to Morningstar. I am Emma Wall and I am joined today Helena Morrissey, Chief Executive of Newton.
Hello, Helena.
Helena Morrissey: Hello.
Wall: So we're here today to talk about women in the City. It's been 45 years since the Gender Equality Act and yet Sandi Toksvig, well-known BBC personality, has just started a [political] party because clearly not enough is being done. What more can the government do?
Morrissey: Well, I am not sure it is a government issue. Actually, I mean, I think, it's quite helpful to have the excitement of new party and people asking questions like you're asking about why do we still need that. But I think that this is about broader societal change, you know, clearly traditional roles are still slow to move on, particularly when women have children, of course, then more often than not, they don't usually leave work, but they take a different path and aren't promoted. And then you get the impression that is men running the country.
So I actually I am very encouraged. I think in the last five years or so, we've seen a real acceleration and an intensification around the whole talk around the topic and actions being taken. I just think we're not quite there yet in terms of broader society.
Wall: I think there are some professions where women and men are equally represented. Sport, which I know you have a lot to do with, and unfortunately in the City are two where perhaps women are not properly represented; only 7% of fund managers are women. You are Chair of The Investment Association. What more can the City do?
Morrissey: Well, I think partly it has to do with our reputation. We're not necessarily regarded as the industry that everybody wants to join. And there is a misunderstanding, I think, often or a lack of understanding about what fund management particularly entails.
It's a great career, if anyone who wants to be judged on results, man or woman. It means that then you can work flexibly, you can work any payer anywhere in the world, you can give intellectually, as long as you create the results, and almost create the performance; and that's not always the case in many other industries, of course.
And I know that it certainly enabled me to bring up a large family and become a CEO quite some time ago now and be able to do quite a lot with my time. Just we need to get out there and spread that message.
Wall: I think that's a really important point because there are so many professions that – fire-fighting, for example, where you have to be on the scene. But fund management and indeed lots of other investment management roles you can do remotely, you can do from home?
Morrissey: Exactly. It's all about judgements and it's about analysis, and it's about something that's over their long-term. It's not transaction based typically; all ingredients of really quite a good environment or opportunity for, say, anybody, man or woman, who wants to balance having a great career with also leading other aspects of their life really well.
Wall: And I have to ask you about positive discrimination because I think there is – there are number of initiatives in order to draw women in, but there is backlash against that, which is that jobs should be given on merit. And positive discrimination, obviously, is unfairly biased towards women. What would be your answer to that?
Morrissey: Well, I am very anti-quotas or any kind of legislation to try to sort of force the issue. I don't think – I think you need to own it and you need to believe in it. I think that what this whole topic and the focus on it in the last few years, particularly has highlighted is that the definition of merit. You know people would, say, well our organisations are meritocracy and we always promote on merit.
But actually then when you throw it back, that actually maybe you take 50% at the entry level, but only say 15% of women – or 15% of the top roles are occupied by women, then are we saying that women aren't just good? But often then, most people would say, that's not the case, it's just our definition, our criteria for what makes a great candidate for a senior job needs to change, it needs to move on from being part of the club.
Wall: So it needs to be about education both for people looking for jobs and people in those jobs?
Morrissey: Yes, and just rethinking actually. Sometimes the impact of diversity can be a positive quality in and of itself. You know, people – the boardroom discussion has moved on because Chairmen have said, actually it's a better place when we have a more diverse group, including more women. That's part of what makes a good boardroom, it makes an effective boardroom. And it's really just broadening the criteria, and not just recruiting in your image that can really help.
Wall: Helena, thank you very much.
Morrissey: Pleasure, thank you.
Wall: This is Emma Wall for Morningstar. Thank you for watching.
